Are All Your Arguments This Bad? (A response to Laci Green)

I’m going to be up-front with all of you.  There was a time when I watched Laci Green’s videos and enjoyed them very much.  Years back, many years back, she made videos about atheism that were pretty enjoyable to watch.  That was back before her show “Sex +.”  She seemed to be getting a lot of traction in those days.  However, she then decided to do what was, at the time, the atheist’s rite of passage – pwning Venom Fang X.  Pwning isn’t a term you hear much anymore.  Again, it is a thing for the time period.  Back in the day, any atheist YouTube personality looking to show their chops went after Venom Fang X.  God knows (pun intended), he didn’t make himself a difficult target.  Indeed, VFX gained infamy for how easy he made himself out to be.  Until Thunderf00t took him to task about when he raised money for a charity and then didn’t give the money he raised to them.  Even forced VFX to read a letter that Thunderf00t had written and leave YouTube for a year.  He eventually came back, but his clout was dead and gone.

Back to Laci, she went after him, and then the unthinkable happened – he went back at her.  He made a response to her video and pwned her.  Quite thoroughly.  It was awe-inspiring.  Needless to say, Laci was humiliated and her credibility in the YouTube atheist crowd was gone.  So, she decided to change her tune and get into feminism videos.  The rest is history.  I got bored of her content after that, because it got progressively less interesting.  But I don’t begrudge her success.  For a while, her “Sex +” videos were pretty good.  She has some chops.  Talking about stuff that was a little awkward, looking at the elements of human sexuality, worked.  But somewhere along the way, where she once decided to make videos about stuff that she clearly knew a great deal about, the feminism side took over, and…yeah.

I made a response to her video where she attacked Disney, and I pointed something rather glaring out – she has absolutely NO specific evidence of her claims that Disney has a ton of rampant sexism in their movies.  She went after the fairytale films, but went out of her way to ignore the vast catalog of animated Disney films.  It was almost upsetting how she made these huge sweeping generalizations without a single citation.  Like it was just supposed to be common knowledge that women in Disney films were all terrible stereotypes.  Even though, if you dig under the hood and have a working knowledge of Disney the way I do, it’s pretty clear that a lot of her points were flat-out wrong.  Like the statement that Disney films have a ton of guys fighting over a gal.  I can only think of one Disney film with that element – Beauty and the Beast.  Or that women are just some prize and have no personality.  Even in the old fairytale movies, that makes no sense.  Go back to Snow White and you see that she cleaned up and made food for the dwarves so that she could use that to barter with them to have a place to stay, so the evil Queen wouldn’t find her.  That was a survival tactic!

Recently, she made a video where she went after the whole deal with rape and its perception in the media.  Naturally, this rides of the coattails of the UVA story, and how Jackie’s entire narrative was proven to be nothing but lies.  I’m sure that she is one of these women who says that it isn’t wrong that Jackie lied.  But let’s actually look at her video and see what she’s talking about.

It’s not ten seconds into the video and already I am annoyed.  She says that people just assume that women are making rape stories up.  A citation would go a LONG way here.  Where is this societal denial of rape and rape victims happening?  She makes this blanket statement, without a SINGLE piece of corroborating evidence.  That is terrible arguing!  I was quite excellent back in debate when I was in college.  Laci, you know what makes a good debate – good evidence.  Or, failing that, being able to hide your bad evidence inside good argumentation.  You can’t do either of these things.

Granted, we don’t just accept that a person who claims to be the victim of a crime is right, the moment they make that claim.  It’s called skepticism.  It’s the cornerstone of our system of a person being innocent until proven guilty.  We do take rape seriously.  But the law says that we have to make a thorough investigation, so we can find out if someone is telling the truth or not.  We don’t believe of disbelieve anyone.  We work to find the truth.  Your saying that it’s wrong to not just take what potential rape victims say as gospel is a little frightening, because you are basically admitting that you don’t want to look at this objectively.  And that belief structure led to the burning of plenty of witches, back in the day.

She makes a bunch of arguments about Bill Cosby and campus sexual assault, then goes on to say that people who hear that women get raped just automatically assume that they’re lying.  You’re wrong, Laci.  You’re just wrong.  I brought this up with Jessica Valenti, and now I’m bringing it up with you – look at the media blitz surrounding the UVA story.  Is that the kind of reaction that you see coming from people who are believed to be lying about their sexual assault experiences?  See how having specific examples helps you case?  We don’t assume that Jackie’s lying.  The EVIDENCE has shown that every part of her story about being raped is a lie.  Absolutely zero corroborating evidence could be found for her story.  I don’t just assume that anyone is guilty or innocent.  I wait for the law to investigate, and judge from there.  Why don’t you?

You also make the blanket statement that people don’t trust women.  Are you kidding me?!  How can you make an assertion like that without a TON of well-researched, very credible evidence?  How can you do that?  I literally don’t get it.  That is nuts.

The one major piece of evidence you bring up is a dude who wrote something where he said that women get overemotional about stuff.  That’s it?  That’s the closest thing you have to evidence in your video?  I looked down below, but you had one link to something someone else wrote that was not especially good either.  I’ve looked through your work on MTV Braless, Laci, and every video is like this!  What is going on?!  I remember when you used to talk about stuff straight.  I remember when you used to have evidence and talk about stuff.  I remember a very enjoyable video where you went after the Catholic church and had a ton of specific examples of bad behavior, and then some examples of documents from them and a group called SNAP (Survivors Network for those Abused by Priests).  Where did that person go?!  What happened?!

I hate seeing people I respected end up like this.  It’s not right.  But more than that – I hate that MTV peddles this garbage.  They accept this narrative and bad argumentation on their network, and what’s more – it’s gotten Laci on MSNBC.  Though that last part doesn’t surprise me.  I hate it, but it doesn’t shock me one bit.  MSNBC has shown themselves for the charlatans they are (and this is coming from a liberal douchebag like me).  It’s a shame that it turned out this way, Laci.  But there is still a chance for you to turn it around.  Maybe your viewers would be lesser, but you can still do the right thing and do some proper research and argue your position without feeling the need to go straight to pathos.

The choice is yours.

Until next time, a quote,

“Nothing goes over my head.  My reflexes are too fast.  I would catch it!”  -Drax the Destroyer, Guardians of the Galaxy

Peace out,



2 thoughts on “Are All Your Arguments This Bad? (A response to Laci Green)

  1. I had no idea who she was until TL;DR destroyed her. There’s just something about her that is mind-breakingly obnoxious. I think it’s the combination of spouting bullshit while being insanely chipper.

    • I hear that. When she was starting out, she wasn’t so chipper. She was a lot more hardcore, from time to time. It was nice to watch. Ah, for the days gone by…

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